Marvel Legends Spider Man Action Sandman
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What do Batgirl, L.E.G.I.O.N., Superman, Batman, Azrael, JLA, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan, Titans, Avengers/Thunderbolts and Empire have in common? Artist extraordinaire Barry Kitson, that’s what. Barry has pencilled them all. Now, with a DC exclusive contract, the forthcoming JSA: Strange Adventures (previously known as Lord Dynamo) and the not so long ago declared Legion of Super-Heroes relaunch with long-time collaborater Mark Waid, Barry’s in for a busy year! Nevertheless, he kindly took time out to chat with PaperbackReader in regards to how he got started, latest projects and everything in between… PaperbackReader: What lead you to comics? Was it something you always wanted to do or was it just supposed to be a pit-stop on the way to something else? Barry Kitson: No, it was in a literal sense all I ever wanted to do from when I was with regards to 6 years old. Somebody showed me a great deal of US comics when I was when it comes to that age, and fundamentally all I wanted to do from then on was to draw comics. I had a few years in my teens when I wanted to be a rock star, but that didn’t rather work out. PBR: Your original work was for Marvel UK; how did you manage to land that? BK: That was just being in the right place at the right time really. I’d been down to Marvel with a lot of samples, and they’d basically said they rather liked them but they wanted me to have something published before they’d give me any work. I said how will I get something published if not anyone gives me any work until I’ve got something published? That was just the accepted exercise back then I think. PBR: And it’s more or less the same now, isn’t it? BK: Yeah, but what they did say was that they’d give me a script to work on just so I could show them what I could do, but they never actually sent me it. When I rang up to find out what was going on, they said the editor I’d seen was no longer there and I’d better come down and see the new guy. PBR: So you had to go back and do it all again? BK: Well I went back down and fortunately the original time I’d been there it had been someone’s leaving do, and I’d gone along to that and got to know everyone there through the evening, so when I walked in this time every one was going, “Hello, Barry, nice to see you again,” and the new editor, who hadn’t been there at all, thought ‘Oh well everyone knows him, I’d better give him a lot of work’. He said that they were looking for somebody to draw a Spider-Man strip they were going to do for a few weeks, he gave me a script and asked me to go away, draw a page, and fetch it back the next day, so I did. He liked it and gave me the job. PBR: That was back in the UK’s Spider-Man Weekly? BK: Yeah, for four weeks they ran a story that originated in the UK by Mike Collins. He wrote all four weeks and drew two. I drew the other two, and Mark Farmer inked all four. After that I fundamentally worked at Marvel for perchance a year or so. I did Transformers, a strip called Space Thieves as a back-up in Captain Britain, basically anything. Really I was just very, very lucky that there was stuff out there so I could learn the trade. PBR: As you say, it was the right place at the right time. And you worked on 2000A.D. [a British science-fiction based weekly comic] as well, on Grant Morrison’s script? BK: Well Grant wrote the basi script I did for them, which was one of the ‘Future Shocks’, then basically I was working with Alan Grant on Dredd and Judge Anderson after that. PBR: So a lot of huge names before they made it in the US really? BK: Yes, I mean at the time they were just beginning. I think that that was galore of Grant’s introductory work as well, and Alan and John Wagner were, I think, just when it comes to to get started their run on Detective Comics. PBR: Grant Morrison has a reputation for being very innovative, and to ‘think outside the box’ in his storytelling. Was he like that even back then? BK: It’s very difficult for me to say, really. I didn’t meet him at all back then. PBR: So you were just working from the scripts? BK: Yeah. There was kind of a community of artisan and writers in London but that was when it comes to it. Most of the rest of the people working in the UK outside London didn’t genuinely bump into each other much in those days. PBR: Was it long after that you landed your primary DC work in the US? BK: I in all likelihood worked on 2000A.D. for when it comes to a year. Then – and this was in truth through Alan – DC were looking for someone to draw Batgirl and at that time Alan was writing Detective; he suggested my name to Denny O’Neil who was editing the book, and he gave me a call one night and asked me if I’d be fascinated in doing Batgirl and I said ‘yes’. I got all excessively affected emotionally and put the phone down and then realised that I hadn’t genuinely asked how much they were going to remunerate me! But that was like a dream come unfeigned for me, working for a US comic company was what I’d always wanted to do. PBR: That was the Batgirl Special, freed shortly before The Killing Joke?. Were you conscious at the time that it was going to be the last real Batgirl story? BK: Not specifically. I knew that something was going to take place to the character, and so DC wanted this one-off, but they wouldn’t tell me what it was. PBR: And after that? BK: I did a Legion of Super-Heroes annual and a Catwoman strip for Action Comics when it was weekly, then after both of those I was given a choice among doing the Catwoman mini they wanted to do and L.E.G.I.O.N. I’d always been a fan of the Legion and science fiction stuff, so I went that way. PBR: And you stayed on there for when it comes to five years? BK: I had a six-month break when I went and did numerous Wolverine issues and a lot of Wildcards stuff over at Marvel, then I came back and did numerous more L.E.G.I.O.N. I think it was two years, then a break, then another two and a half years. PBR: On the later run at least, you’re credited as co-plotter as well as pencils. Was that a natural evolution for you? BK: I guess you could say it was. When Alan decisive he was going to move on he suggested that I was competent of writing it myself. I did that for a few issues, but I genuinely kind of missed the collaborative side of things so I stayed on co-plotting and Mark Waid came on board. That was when we met and we’ve enjoyed working with each other ever since. PBR: You’ve done a number of projects together since then. BK: We have. We’ve got a very good working kinship where we give each other a push and shove both ways; he lets me tinker with the story and I show him the work as I do it. If I’m planning a scene and he thinks that I’m not handling it in rather the best way, he’ll give me a call and let me know, ask me if there’s any way that I may do it differently. I actually like that; it’s half the fun, really. PBR: And after your second stint on L.E.G.I.O.N came Adventures of Superman? BK: That’s right, I went on to Adventures of Superman after L.E.G.I.O.N and I was doing Shadow of the Bat as well. PBR: Again, with Alan Grant. BK: Yes, and then Azrael was kind of in the wings to do at a heap of point. I don’t in truth rather recognise why, because it doesn’t genuinely seem to occur like that anymore, but everything seemed to be very planned out and you knew what was going on. PBR: And you launched the regular series of Azrael, and stayed on that for a while with Denny O’Neil as the writer? BK: I stayed on Azrael for two years, yes, with Denny writing and with Archie Goodwin as the editor, which was a real pleasure. PBR: They’re both in truth legends in the industry. Was it easy to work with them? BK: Working with Denny was a bit dissimilar for me, because Denny doesn’t like to collaborate a outstanding deal with the artist. He likes to just write it, and that’s his percentage done, so it was a big change from what I was used to. And working for Archie was one of the nicest things that could occur to any individual in the business. PBR: So you stayed on Azrael for two years; was JLA: Year One next? BK: Pretty much, but even back then Mark and I were talking regarding doing Empire. We kind of neared Wildstorm, and they were fascinated in doing it. DC fundamentally asked us what it would take for us to keep with them rather than going off and doing that, and we proposed ‘JLA: Year One’. PBR: I guess it was a dream project really, because it’s in truth all the huge DC characters. BK: Absolutely. It was childhood wish-fulfilment., really, for me. Plus we got to drag in everyone else – Doom Patrol, and all the other characters that I’d always wanted to draw. PBR: Again, that was very much a collaboration amongst you and Mark Waid. Wasn’t Brian Augustyn was on that as well? BK: Yes, he was kind of working more with Mark and then I’d have to deal with the two of them. PBR: That will have to have been pretty well received, because it wasn’t long after that that The Brave and the Bold was announced, a mini series chronicling the kinship among Hal Jordan (Green Lantern) and Barry Allen (the Flash). BK: That’s right. It was kind of a case of “what do you want to do now?” PBR: They genuinely wanted to keep you two around, didn’t they? BK: I guess so. DC has always treated me very well. PBR: I was looking at The Brave and the Bold, and a lot of the way the books were designed is very much a homage to the old silver age comics. BK: That’s what we were attempting to do, really. We were attempting to tell the story of Hal and Barry’s friendship, and kind of stylize it to the actual comics that were around in the amount of time they were set, which is why #4, which was a very Neal Adams-ish one- PBR: – the one with Green Arrow in it? BK: That’s right. Tom Grindberg drew that and I just inked that one, as he’s got a kind of Neal Adams style that I don’t have. PBR: And I guess that it was not long after that Gorilla Comics and Empire happened? BK: Yes, I suppose it was. PBR: Tell me a bit in regards to Gorilla. How did that come about? BK: The idea was that a whole bunch of us would get together, and make a good deal of comics and have numerous originative say, and see what we could do – undertake and do something interesting. The adverse side of it was that the business side of things didn’t work out; we went from having backing and funding to ‘you’ve got to remunerate for the printing of this yourself’ which I surely couldn’t afford. It was hard. I genuinely admire Kurt [Busiek], Stuart [Immonen], Karl [Kesel] and Tom [Grummet] because they did carry on through, but I’m very much a pragmatist. If we were syndication as a heap of as we were syndication on Empire and we weren’t making any cash it seemed kind of pointless – like you’re in a hole but you keep digging. PBR: Sure. And it was just two issues of Empire that got released? BK: Yes, two issues. We were hoping we’d keep going, but you have to wait and see what the economics were. Unfortunately, the economics were such that what would be a good retail book for a major company, with all the discounts they get at the printers’, and would make a earnings for a huge company just doesn’t make a net profit for a little one. And another portion of the disturb was because we thought we had funding, we said that we wanted the best paper, we wanted to recompense the colorists more than they were getting anyplace else at the time, we were including 24 or 25 pages of story per issue rather of 22… PBR: And I guess that cuts down on your publicity revenue. BK: Yes and the way to economise was we put less story pages in, or we didn’t use such good paper, and we just decisive that we’d rather wait until we could afford to do it as it was Mark bankrolled the whole operation – for which the rest of us on the book were more than grateful! PBR: Rather than put out something you’re not altogether happy with? BK: Absolutely. Luckily at the time DC said they liked the book and were mesmerized in picking it up, so that’s what we went for. PBR: It took a couple of years for it to come out at DC, though. BK: The thing was, because of what happened with Gorilla, we’d taken on other work and it became a case of when may we sit down and do this. In a lot of ways, it worked out for the betterment of the book because it gave us a probability to talk through it. We continued to talk when it comes to it over the years, and we kept throwing ideas in and the story would keep changing. PBR: Empire is rather a violent book, and evidently September 11th happened amidst the Gorilla and DC issues; did that have any effect on the story? BK: I don’t think it had any conscious effect altho I’m sure on a subconscious level 9-11 probably affected everyone’s world view. If anything I think it may have brought what we attempting to say when it comes to how ugly violence and power seeking is into sharper focus, but we didn’t hold back because of it. PBR: And you’ve had gorgeous favourable reviews each where, really. BK: Yes, it seems to have been very well accepted by everybody. PBR: And is DC happy with it? BK: Yes, they seem to be. PBR: Happy sufficient to give you a second series? BK: I surely hope so! Mark and I have got plans for at least a hundred issues of Empire. PBR: That’s plotting in advance! BK: That’s just from talking with regards to it over the years. It’s such a huge canvas… PBR: It is. As a reader, one of the joys of the series is that nobody’s ever safe; anything may happen. BK: That was share of the point. What we were attempting to do with all of it was to play with all of the preconceptions that readers have regarding superhero comics; that characters won’t die, they’ll always wear the same clothes, that the good guys are the good guys and the bad guys are the bad guys. The idea was to make it fun because people wouldn’t recognise what was going to occur next, even when they thought they might think they did. PBR: Stepping back, before Empire ran at DC you were working on the Titans. At the time, I guess the book was kind of dying a critical death to a lot of extent; the storylines weren’t being in particular well received closely from the beginning of that run. When you’re working on a book that isn’t a big hit with fans, does it affect your a lively interest for your work? BK: Well, the Titans thing was kind of pear-shaped from the start out really. I was asked if I wanted to write and draw it, so the idea was I could kind of undertake to put it right, but when I actually came on board the editor and writer had patched things up so I came on just as the artist. Then I found out that the writer, Jay Faerber, hadn’t been writing the kind of stories that he genuinely wanted to write; but by then I was on the book, and I was sympathising with him and we both kind of stuck with a book we couldn’t steer the way we had hoped. By the time that Jay decisive he’d had sufficient and Tom Peyer was coming on board, DC had decisive the whole thing was going to be re-jigged anyway. It never became the book I actually wanted it to become and I never got the prospect to do the things I wanted to do. In hindsight, I in all probability shouldn’t have started on it when I found out that I wasn’t going to be getting the chance to modify things as I’d hoped, but also, Andy Helfer the editor was a friend and you don’t like to let anybody down. It wasn’t the happiest time because I like the Titans a lot as characters and I looked forward to drawing it, and never actually getting the probability to do with them as I liked wasn’t great. Its just one of those things, I suppose. Hopefully I’ll have learned a heap of lessons from what happened! PBR: Okay, just bringing it up to date, you signed a three year exclusive with DC early this year? BK: That’s right. It came in regards to when I was working for Marvel as well, on Avengers/Thunderbolts. PBR: How a lot of issues of that did you do in the end? BK: I finished issue one, did the breakdowns for number two and pencilled and inked all the covers. The schedules amid the two companies just went kind of haywire; I would never intend to leave a project before I finished it but it just wasn’t physically possible to do it all the work DC and Marvel wanted from me in the time available and something had to give. DC had a good deal of long term things they wanted me to do and they made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. I agonized over what to do for a long time, but in truth there was only one choice to make. I would like to say how understanding the editorial team at Marvel were (Tom Brevoort and Any Smith) which I genuinely cherished and I genuinely hope I get a probability to make it up to them someday! At least I got to draw one issue. It was the primary chance I’d had to work with Kurt [Busiek] since Gorilla, and I got to meet Fabian [Nicieza] as well. It’s a shame but it just couldn’t be avoided. Ironically Tom Grummet, another Gorilla artist, finished it up. I took over Adventures of Superman from him and he’s taken over that from me. PBR: Swings and roundabouts. BK: Exactly. PBR: And what kind of things did DC offer? BK: Well one of them was the JSA book I’m working on at the moment, Lord Dynamo, which is closely 200 pages long. PBR: And what format is that coming out in? BK: I think six thirty page books. PBR: And it’s set in World War II? BK: It is, yes, so it’s kind of like a JLA: Year One thing again for me but this time I get to draw all the basi characters. PBR: Again, a bit of a dream project. BK: Yeah, it’s great; I’m having a lot of fun. It’s genuinely the basi kind of amount of time piece that I’ve done so it’s giving me a chance to use a lot of references and get actually stuck into old architecture and engineering science and things. PBR: And are you writing that series? BK: No, it’s written by Kevin J Anderson. He’s a very well valued science fiction author with assorted best-sellers to his name PBR: Okay. What do you have lined up after that? I read an consultation with Mark Waid that hinted that there might be something else for the two of you coming up? BK: Yes, Mark and I will unquestionably be doing something after that. J PBR: I know that there are perpetually rumours on respective message boards with regards to either Legion of Super-Heroes or L.E.G.I.O.N? BK: … PBR: I’ll take that as you may neither assert nor deny those? BK: I’m conscious that there are rumours, but I’m not making any comment on those. The bottom line is, if Mark and I don’t do anything else, we’ll be doing Empire. PBR: Fair enough. Is there any person working in the industry that you haven’t worked with that you’d like to? BK: Oh yes, loads, the list could be almost endless. I’m wary to even begin listing persons with fear of forgetting somebody! PBR: I recognise that Geoff Johns is doing some outstanding work at DC at the moment. BK: He is, and I worked with Geoff on the Doctor Fate issue in JSA All-Stars. I think that was basically the reason I got offered the book I’m doing now. Geoff and I had wanted to work together for a long, long time and hopefully we will again in the not to distant future. We both enjoyed the experience J …. I think! PBR: Okay, good. Moving on to comics generally, what’s your sentiment on the state of the industry at the moment? There seems to be a slight rut as far as getting new readers in goes. BK: I don’t know if that’s actually the case; DC were telling me that their sales were up 13% last year, which is rather a healthful rise. A few humans I know that own comic shops have been telling me that it’s actually picking up again. There’s now perchance half a dozen books syndication over a hundred thousand, whereas a couple of years ago there was only one. I think it have a tendancy to go in closely seven year cycles; there are troughs and peaks. Sometimes the peaks get higher than others. We seem to be on an up-trend at the moment. I think things are a bit more together now; a couple of years ago things did look a bit dire but I think persons have kind of rationalised now. To me it seems that more chances are being taken with stories and genres and that there’s a fine depth of talent working in the field. PBR: And the UK market? BK: I’m penitent to say that I’m not actually up to date on the UK market at all. I employed to get a few things when I was younger, like a magazine that reprinted Tales of Asgard, Jack Kirby stuff, but I’m a die-hard superhero fan through and through. Before 2000AD the British comics I purchased were largely titles like Fantastic and Terrific that reprinted Marvel comics. I did buy Look and Learn for Don Lawrence’s Trigon Empire…though I’m sure my parents thought I was reading all the intellectual bits! PBR: I see. So you’re not tempted to work on anything a bit Vertigo-esque while you’re at DC? BK: I’d like to actually. Mike Carey and I have talked with regards to possibly my doing something on Lucifer at a great deal of point if we get the chance, because he’s somebody I’d like to work with; whether I’ll ever get the probability to or not I don’t know. I would like to do numerous other stuff, but I think it would always be like a holiday and I’d always come back to superheroes or sci-fi. PBR: Sure. What counsel may you offer to aspiring artists attempting to break in? BK: Basically, just keep working, keep drawing and try not to just copy from comics. There’s not one thing faulty with just doing that but if you don’t draw from life as well, you kind of limit where you may go. You may become a perfective mimic of another comic artisan but unless you draw from life as well, you can’t take that style someplace else. There are loads and loads of persons who start out by copying another artisan but the ones who tend to make it move on from that and develop their own style, and the ones that do, do it by drawing from real life. The other thing is to actually listen to what persons tell you when you show them submissions and things. PBR: And genuinely take their criticism on board. BK: Yes. You come throughout people, and you’ll say ‘Well you need to do this,’ and they’ll argue with you for giving them criticism – if you aren’t prepared to listen a good deal of criticism of your work you actually shouldn’t be showing it to people! Criticism may only make you better, and aid you analyse what you need to do to improve what you’re doing. Another thing is, when you’re starting out take anything; if you’re offered work, don’t ever think you’re above it. It’ll give you a probability to learn your trade. I do feel a heap of sympathy for people who come into comics these days and get promoted straight away as the ‘next big thing’, perhaps before they’re ready for it. They ofttimes get dismissed before they get a probability to grow and genuinely develop their style because they were forced into the limelight too soon, and that’s a real shame. You’re better just attempting to keep bettering all the time – there’s not one thing more disappointing than seeing that somebody’s stopped attempting and you may tell their heart isn’t in it. Learn your trade. And most importantly, do it because you take pleasure in it. PBR: Is that most indispensable do you think? BK: Probably. People most times begin seeing it as a occupation and they lose sight of why they get enjoyment from it, and possibly that’s only natural, but when that does take place you just have to take a step back. It’s not a job, it’s a dream come true, at least for me. PBR: And what’s the working day like for you? BK: I get started work at possibly 7.30 or 8.00am and work through till regarding 8pm. PBR: And that’s five days a week? BK: (Laughs) No, seven! Its not like I work solid, I’ll take breaks, take the dog for a walk, that kind of thing. PBR: Okay, a great deal of quick-fire questions for you; Jay, Barry or Wally? BK: Hmmm…Barry. PBR: Alan, Hal or Kyle? BK: Hal. PBR: I’m beginning to see a pattern here. Dick, Jason or Tim? BK: Dick. PBR: The ones you grew up with, right? BK: Exactly. PBR: Birthright or Man of Steel? BK: Birthright. PBR: Garfield or Snoopy? BK: Snoopy. PBR: Good answer. I think a lot of humans say Garfield. BK: Only the ones that are attempting to be cool. Snoopy all the way. PBR: What’s the last film you saw? BK: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen on DVD last weekend. PBR: Me too. It got a lot of bad reviews, but I kind of liked it. Not great, but it was a good fun film. BK: Exactly. I think if you get a comic book movie and you go in and you’re too cherished and picky, then you’ll be disappointed. If you go in with an open mind and don’t suppose a masterpiece, you’ll be okay. PBR: Okay, favourite film ever? BK: I don’t think that I in truth have a favourite film ever, it changes. I’m tempted to say the ‘Thin Man’ movies, but it changes from day to day. I’m in truth engrossed with 1940′s movies for the JSA project at the moment – so almost any film noir title could have been named for this question! I don’t in truth believe in ‘all time favorites’ in anything actually! PBR: What comics are you reading at the moment? BK: All of Alan Moore’s ABC stuff, Birthright, Lucifer, Hellblazer, Fables, Planetary, Wanted, Arrowsmith, The Ultimates, 100 Bullets – I’d like to work with Brian at some point, in particular as we part a lot of the same taste in music. I tend to put stuff to one side and read it in batches; I just read the last JSA run the other day, including Black Reign, and that was good. If I don’t like something, I’ll just put it down. Aside from the stuff I get comp’d I also get Supreme Power, Fantastic Four, Ultimate FF, MK4 – even though I haven’t read that yet – and Hellboy, when it comes out. PBR: Barry, this has been great! BK: Thanks, I’ve enjoyed it.
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